DFRDFL Interview #1: Matty Bar

I did say in closing section of the Rucktion article that I'd be publishing the full unedited interviews if there was demand, however the demand I was thinking of presented itself in a way I hadn't anticipated. It came in the form of a message from Pierre not long ago just asking if he could read Matty's full unedited interview which in turn planted the seed in my brain that if the founder of this whole scene wants to read what fellow co-founder said in the same project then it must be of at least some interest to more than one person out there. Anyway, without picking favourites, Pierre's interest was well warranted as Matty's interview was one of the most eye-opening to read back for myself as it covers a time period completely alien to me that becoming better acquainted with has been one of the key motives in putting together the original master-text that I published last year. Waffling introduction check, let's get into the brains behind the brawn with Matty Bar's full interview...

To kick off, how did discover punk and hardcore and what was your key motivation for getting so involved? Did you come from a musical background and therefore motivated purely by wanting to play in a band; did you find other areas such as show booking, zine making and label running being the main reason for getting involved or was it all of the above/something else?

 

Vision were an insanely underrated
founding NJ hardcore band. I can't
quite put into words how good
 'In the Blink of an Eye' is. Definition of 
criminally underrated.

For me it was a natural progression from indie to grunge into punk into hardcore. The grunge thing, and later the punk revival in 1993, exposed a lot of underground bands.  Lots of the more mainstream alternative bands like the Beastie Boys, Helmet, Rollins Band, Dinosaur Jr and later Dog Eat Dog and Pennywise all had roots in punk and hardcore. Meanwhile most of us used to skate and skate videos put me onto stuff like Gorilla Biscuits, All and Vision.

I didn't really have a musical background but there was always a radio on somewhere and we had lots of records in the house. My mum had a guitar around the house and at around 15 I started trying to play along with Pixies basslines. A year later I ended up getting a bass and Ollie had drums at his place already. It wasn't until we saw Knuckledust four years  later that we thought about doing something other than getting mashed and jamming Beastie Boys covers (specifically Time For Livin' and Heart Attack Man).

Knuckledust was definitely the main inspiration for us to start the band. We had been checking out gigs by American bands like Sick of It all, Madball and Slapshot for a little while and got hold of Pierre's Time 4 Some Action newsletter. I didn't catch the first KD show but not long after I saw them support Warzone at the Underworld and they were already tight as fuck. That gig in particular is significant because a lot of people in attendance would later become friends and form bands together or start zines and labels. Anyway after that show it was just sort of mutually assumed that we were doing a band.

The UKHC History IG account
really is a godsend for sourcing
almost all the pictures for this
blog. Above is A page taken straight
 from Pierre's Time For Some Acton
Newsletter.

The zine thing came about as we were all quite artistically inclined and zines of all kinds were far more prevalent back then. I had been reading punk and indie zines like Bugs'n'Drugs and Dregs for ages so doing our own but basing it around hardcore was pretty easy especially with bands popping up everywhere. The label Black Up Records basically happened at the same time as the zine. The whole DIY aspect was really celebrated at the time and we wanted to do as much as possible. Heavy flyering and word of mouth brought in more people to the shows and eventually it started to gain momentum. When Pierre started up Rucktion, we put BUR to bed and joined forces.

Putting on shows came about as a necessity as we needed somewhere to play. We did a few more in Herne Hill but it was too far for some and numbers dwindled. We would book venues anywhere that would have us in Tottenham, Harrow, Stockwell, Camden until we eventually got involved with the 12Bar. So I wouldn't say any particular one factor was more important than the other – they were all different elements of one thing and it all sort of happened at once.

             

Your most notable act, Ninebar sits as the Rucktion band with arguably the highest cult status. You have a distinct musical style, very clear lyrical themes and not to mention, a pretty diehard following. Were you ever aware at the time of how important the records you were making would become; what they would mean lyrically and thematically to so many people and the influence they’d have on other bands? 

 

Well, firstly, thank you for the kind words. It's always been something we've done for fun and I don't think we had any idea we would still be doing this in or forties.  Any distinction in our musical style probably stems from the fact that we didn't really know how to play when we started! In hindsight, it doesn't seem unusual that Rucktion made such an impact as there weren't any other bands in the UK playing this sort of music with such a London vibe. The only band really close to what we were doing with Rucktion was Above All and they had fizzled out by then sadly.

 

Although not mentioned in these responses, when I
was discussing this interview with Matty,
Cold Front came up in conversation.
I'm sure their song 'Kings for the Night'
tells all regarding the hc/graff connection

When I listen to Ninebar, despite getting the obvious references of the tougher side of NYHC (such as Bulldoze, Neglect, Darkside NYC, Sheer Terror etc) I also hear other UK underground influences creeping through especially in the vocal delivery such as UK rap and grime to name a few. I also know culturally and aesthetically graffiti was a massive influence on the band with certain members having been writers at various times. Considering graff and hardcore share an inseparable history with each other, what were the main musical and cultural influences on Ninebar? What was always of prime importance to the band when writing Ninebar songs, musically and lyrically? How big of an influence was graff on the band and LBU as a whole?

I wouldn't say grime so much but definitely UK rap. There was a pretty decent scene in the UK just before grime started in the early 2000s. The Dark'n'Cold UK Hip Hop Untapped videos were definitely a big influence and we were listening to tons of Skinnyman & Mud Family, Rodney P, Skeme & Big P, Fallacy etc. There's a good amount of American hip hop in the recipe too though.

When we wrote back then it was more about just keeping the song together. We just wanted to write beatdowns! Lyrically we tend to vary between the serious and the not so serious which we cover later.

As far as graffiti goes, the writers in the band were more into graffiti for itself rather than anything to do with hip hop. The sort of rap that has influenced the lyrics (e.g. Big Pun) doesn't really explore that whole 'four elements' angle much. Between us, we had actually dabbled with graff as kids way back in the mid to late 80s and I remember seeing Subway Art when I was pretty young. When we first became aware of Madball and saw graffiti in the Set It Off inlay and the Down By Law video it definitely rekindled the love of graff so they have always been related for us.

The history between the two is well documented now and we've met writers from all over London, the UK and abroad through hardcore. The guy who designed the first Rucktion website knew, and had worked with, a few London writers who have moved into the the art world. The Rucktion logo itself was definitely influenced by getting the train past one of Zomby's characters everyday. One of our sadder memories was discovering a good friend of the band had died on the day of the release party for Urban Legends. RIP VIZO.            

 

I Can't lie, my UK Rap knowledge from this time period is highly lacking,

probably due to the fact by the time I was old enough to get into UK underground

music, Grime had already left this specific style in the dust (not to mention how much Grime DOMINATED my teens).

There is definitely a tongue-in-cheek element to Ninebar’s lyrical themes and artwork as well as more serious themes at play. What was the motivation in this “dancing on the line antics” between the humorous and the more serious, do you enjoy this kind of ironic approach or have I got it completely wrong?

 

Spot the difference between Lil Wayne's
first album and Raising the Bar, NOW!

We've never taken ourselves too seriously so that's pretty much bang on. I'm as much a fan of Murphy's Law and No Redeeming Social Value as I am the heavy shit. Fatty and Biz both have pretty distinctive styles so some of our lyrics are pretty dark in places and rowdy in others. 'Read These Boks' was intentionally the most ignorant thing we could come up with both musically and lyrically.  Interesting fact, that song was written before Urban Legends but it didn't have lyrics yet. We had got hold of some well aggressive sounding dancehall mixtape and decided to write a tune with a part with a dancehall tempo.

The art was very much inspired by the blinged out album covers of Cash Money Records and No Limit Records album covers. I'm more of an East Coast guy when it comes to hip hop but their albums just looked incredible and hilarious and way more interesting than any hardcore record. Plus we appreciated the DIY aspect of both those labels and it was pretty crude and cut'n'paste in a way.

 

What did you feel like you could offer to hardcore as a band and as a guitarist writing music that no one else could? Was it flying the flag for South London, an urge to compose songs with a distinct flavour or something else?

 

I don't think I've ever thought about it like that. We just wanted to play shows and create something but we were definitely repping South London right from the start. As a guitarist learning to play, I would have just tried to sound like whatever my favourite band was at that time. I have a pretty simple style because when I started playing it didn't need to be anything but simple. I'm definitely better at playing technically since I joined bands where I'm not writing the music so there's that!

 

Stories of this show have been delicately
passed down through the divine art
of older hardcore heads embellishing 
show stories until they become engrained
in the younger generation as the folklore
they deserve to be.

I know what bands come to my mind (as previously mentioned) when I listen to Ninebar but what bands helped to influence Ninebar that were more contemporary to the time in the mid-90s. In other words, what bands did you go and see that were either local, national or international that made the biggest impressions on you as an individual and the band as a whole?

 

For me personally, the more well known bands that pointed me in this direction I mentioned earlier. Then had the bigger hardcore bands who would play semi regularly like  Sick Of It All, Madball, Slapshot, Shelter, Dog Eat Dog, Downset, etc. Some standout shows I remember are: Denied at the Verge, Warzone at the Underworld, 108 at the Garage, Subzero at the Standard, 25 Ta Life upstairs at the Garage, Cold As Life upstairs at the Garage. 

 

 What is it about the city of London that contributes so heavily to the sound, aesthetic and values of Rucktion?

 

London can be a pretty bleak place but it's diverse. Hardcore is a pretty narrow-minded but also diverse genre; we can't help but be influenced by our surroundings and so the traditional sound evolved to reflect that. 

 

Ninebar lyrically points the finger at a lot of people and problems in society (too much internet usage for example). What were the biggest hardships you yourself, your bands or Rucktion records ever came up against that affected you personally, your reputation or maybe acted as barriers to greater success? Did you learn from these struggles and how do they still influence what you do?

 

We Don't Need was actually about the backlash of internet trolls we got when we first started up. You'd have think we were sacrificing babies the way some of the older crowd reacted. Rucktion hasn't had too much trouble really. Some guy threatened to sue me once for defamation of character but nothing ever came of it! We all have day jobs and families and this is something we try to fit in between. We're also pretty lazy which probably hinders our progress a bit.

 

 What is your proudest moment related to the label/movement/bands specifically?

 

Doesn't get anymore Ninebar than Skinny donning
a cheesecutter hat and playing almost entire set 
bottle-in-hand in a heinously smoky 12bar (bonus
points for night vision camera and opening with
'Fuck BTP').

I'm proud to have played show abroad with some incredible bands I never thought I would see. I haven't booked a show for years but I would feel proud when everything fell into place with the place packed, band guarantees paid, and money left over to chuck back into the label or have a beer.

I'm proud of what we had the 12Bar, that place really was a godsend.  One of the biggest obstacles was paying for the venue and backline and trying to find a good spot everyone could reach. With the 12Bar we had a tiny, lawless little venue right in the heart of central London; free to hire with an alley way the size of a small street for a smoking area. We will probably never experience anything like that again.

 

 If you were getting into hardcore for the first time again now, what would you do differently and what would you make clear to the younger generation getting into it in today’s climate?

 

I would buy a decent amp as early as possible and learn to drive. Of course when you're young and starting a band you're probably skint so don't quit your day job. Bottom line is if you want to get better you need to practise as much as possible.

 

Who are your favourite younger bands who either appeal to you musically or perhaps remind you of yourself/practice the same ethos you did when you started playing in bands?

 

Ok I am terrible at keeping track of new bands.

I think the most recent thing I've listened to is the Gouge Away album from last year.

This NEEDS to be printed on a shirt.

 

I Can’t Believe It’s Not Ripped...

For anyone who has ever partaken in any group oriented musical activity ever, they’ll know the feeling each respective band member is struck with when the one (or more) songwriter(s) sits down desperate to show you that new riff they’ve been working on for them then to play note-for-note something suspiciously familiar. If you’ve been in that position then you’ll also know about all the umming and arring bouncing off the carpeted practice room walls regarding 1.) where you’ve heard the riff before; 2.) whether its good or not and 3.) whether listeners will actually notice. What I’m talking about of course is the age-old rip-off and all the shapes and sizes it can come in. Whether it’s to shamelessly steal an idea in place of actually being bothered to envisage one of your own; a tactful use of versatile musical influences (what everyone wishes the origin of their rip-offs actually could be construed as) or just purely to pay tribute to our audible deities.

I’ll be the first to say that I’m 100% guilty of punk rock plagiary in the first-degree and this list could probably be filled with the number of shameless lifts of riffs that me and all my mates have spun over the years. However, as narcissistic as that is, I understand it would be far from interesting for anyone to read. What would be interesting is to magnify the toe-tingling giddiness I get when I catch one of my own influencers red-handed in a good old-fashioned rip by collating a list that’ll make you mime “I cant believe it’s not ripped” as you open up the links to these comparisons in a new tab.

 PRE-TRIGGER WARNING: Some of the riffs below are direct note-for-note crimes of GTA, some are just stylistically so similar that it would be hard to believe there hadn’t been some sort of riff-tampering at least somewhere down the line. ENJOY.

 

10. Exhorder vs Pantera

I’m sure all the metal metalheads (purposeful double usage of ‘metal’) will know about this one. How does a spandex-wearing, falsetto shrieking bunch of Texans worth a dime a dozen (no offence intended) turn into one of the most influential bands in heavy music? These things don’t usually happen over-night and after rinsing and repeating the blindingly earth shattering first two full lengths by fellow Southerners, Exhorder, I can definitely see how the groove stated its claim in Pantera’s power metal sound, refusing to ever leave.  Whilst there aren’t any direct rips contained across the Pantera catalogue, if you do a track-by-track comparison (oh yes, I’m sad enough to have done this) of Vulgar Display of Power alongside Exhorder’s Slaughter in the Vatican, you’ll be continually trying to unclog those ears in desperation to confirm this Exhorder record isn’t a long lost Pantera demo sandwiched between Cowboys from Hell with Vulgar.

There are definitely huge differences don’t get me wrong, Exhorder are firmly a thrash band and Pantera forefathers of groove metal but the similarities that are present are of upmost importance to any serious listener. The vocals are almost identical to Anselmo’s raspy wails; the guitar tone has that clicky (Albeit less tight) triggered quality that was definite for Dimebag and finally the way Exhorder just drop probably one of the first groove metal sections ever recorded into the first track on their debut LP somewhere around the 3:20 mark (this riff could also easily have been ripped by Death Threat in the breakdown to the song Outcast).

To round off this vibe-rip section, I’m not gonna sulk in the sentiment that Pantera stole Exhorder’s sound and all credit should go to the latter band. Whatever you think of them, Pantera were a phenomenally talented band that arguably kept metal in the forefront of mainstream consciousness during a baron age for the genre. Its more than likely that members of Pantera saw so much potential in the groove parts that were unique to Exhorder at the time and simply revamped it with much tighter musicianship; condensed aesthetic; catchy lyrics and a gun-toting southern vibe that made Pantera what they were. If anything, the whole situation was a ‘too early to the party’ scenario where Exhorder were victims of their own timing. Their debut was way too heavy for 1987 to be digestible to a mass audience and ultimately lacked all of the commercial factors that would otherwise lead to a band like Pantera’s success.

 

9. Suicidal Tendencies vs Tokyo Blade

Ok so I’m pretty proud of myself for spotting this one especially since I wasn’t expecting anything remotely close to a B-tier NWOBHM band rip-off present in one of the most successful hardcore bands of all time. For anyone who doesn’t know, that’s exactly what Tokyo Blade were, an early era NWOBHM band that wrote some superb songs but nothing that would ever stick past 1985. As much as I love this style of metal, it seemed extremely short lived (maybe even more so than the first wave of hardcore) with Maiden and Priest being the only major acts adhering to listeners. Anyway, with hundreds of forgettable bands behind a draw bridge of studs and leather, there is plenty of leeway to thieve riffs upon riffs and that’s exactly what Mike Clarke from Suicidal Tendencies did.

The opening clean part to How Will I Laugh Tomorrow by Suicidal is the same, by all but a few notes, to the middle section (3:33) of Heaven is Hell by the wet-stone sharpened blade wielders in Tokyo Blade (actually hailing from Salisbury where I’m guessing the idea of a Tokyo blade was quite exotic and bohemian circa 1979). Everything down to the clean/acoustic combo is something Suicidal would apprehend in their later, more metallic period with Clarke bringing with him an abundance of British metal influences to the Venice Beach cycos. There’s a whole heap of debate as to which era of Suicidal is the best with hardcore kids on the left swearing by the self-titled and metalheads on the right preparing to venture perhaps a little too far into the band’s vast discography. I think the band were on absolute fire musically all the way up until Lights, Camera, Revolution, largely due to the array of influences they were able to incorporate before many others did – this NWOBHM clean guitar streak being one of them (and a recurring one at that too).

To round off, I salute Mike Clarke – along with Cyco Miko – for re-popularising Suicidal Tendencies in the late 80s; exceeding the fame ST experienced after the self-titled album hit shelves and taking something quite alien in NWOBHM, mixing it with hardcore, thrash, hip hop, Latino gang aesthetic and beach mayhem to make Suicidal an even more definitive band than they already were.

 

8. Supertouch vs Elvis Costello

Supertouch are great and I appreciate them a lot more than I did when I was discovering the goldmine that is NYHC (which at the time I think I just liked them for the novelty of hardcore kids doing a non-hardcore band). The Earth Is Flat is so timeless in its sound; unrivalled production compared with any hardcore release and legitimately stands up as a record on its own without the baggage of “oh did you know these guys were all NYHC stalwarts beforehand?” remark.

Unfortunately, this rip doesn’t contain much of the hilare factor and to me is just a genuine example of how great Supertouch were as song writers and how far their influences reached despite giving more than a hard-hatted nod to New Wave mogel, Elvis Costello. There would of course be no NYHC without the strong English Oi! influence but Supertouch take it a step further by incorporating the reggae style staccato rhythm guitar/bass placement Costello incorporates in the song, (I Don’t Want To Go To) Chelsea. Elvis Costello was one of those artists (like Ian Dury) my dad used to slap on in the closing hour  of long car journeys just to get the blood flowing again and stop us asking for the 100^th time “ARE WE THERE YET?” Like Supertouch, I appreciate Costello barrels more in the present day and it was only upon revisiting deep album listens (obviously my old man only had anthologies or greatest hits CDS) that I put two and two together with this song and Supertouch’s Detectives. A perfect “oh shit” moment and just makes so much sense in explaining the maturity of Supertouch’s sound on this album. Nothing more to hear.

 7. The Icemen vs Ozzy Osbourne

Talk about someone full of themselves, you’d think The Icemen toured the world twice and reached platinum record sales by how highly guitarist Marco Abularach thinks of himself as a songwriter and the brains behind Carl The Mosher’s brawn (RIP). Have a read of this interview and make your own mind up but it strikes me as an acute case of Dennis Waterman syndrome (you know, write the theme tune, sing the theme tune type thing). Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love the 7(?) Icemen songs there are to be heard and think their sound is fairly unique but no way do I think they outputted enough top tier material to be regarded as highly as they are nor do I respect the washed-up opinion of dried-up old prunes like their guitar player’s. 

Getting back on topic, the riff here is the opening gambit to Shadow Out of Time and I have to say, for someone who thinks their shit don’t stink, this riff sounds so suspiciously like Ozzy’s Bark at the Moon, a part of me is happy that this band never reached greater success when such an iconic riff-steal was committed within their ranks. I don’t have much more to say on this one other than the fact that for a guitarist who doesn’t see himself as a hardcore kid or someone really into the hardcore subgenre, it’s ironic all his band have managed to do is influence legions of hardcore kids to second hand steal already stolen metal riffs. This is of course fine, if you actually have respect for the genre you’re performing within but based on the interview I linked at the top, this guy definitely doesn’t. 

 6. Converge vs Blind Authority vs Inspector Gadget Theme Tune

I never thought an actual theme tune would make it into this list but this one has been driving me to near insanity since I heard it. Converge were one of the gateway bands for me getting into hardcore so will always hold a special place in my heart and after rinsing all of the early material dry at the age of 14-15, this is historically the oldest rip-off I ever identified. Whether it’s a genuine scramble of the total 11 notes in musical theory that just happen to sound awfully similar or a purposeful nod to the extendable-armed gadget master, the riff at 2:45 of The Saddest Day just IS the Inspector Gadget theme tune.

It’s like Converge went so far over the edge of ripping generic Slayer riffs that the evil harmonies used in composing those riffs went full circle and came back around via the cartoon theme song exit motorway. I’ve listened to this song over 100 times in my life and to this day that section gives me the giggles whilst at the same time being the only appropriate turn this song could have taken in a seven-minute assault of incalculable twists. The song itself strikes me as a band saying “let’s make a song that has every possible type of section in and that’s 7 minutes long.” Well, it definitely worked because years later I still love this song and the album it’s taken from (see the 10-minute equivalent to The Saddest Day written by Splitknuckle that hits all of the same sweet spots that the aforementioned classic manages to hammer home. This era of Converge will also be the last of the band "finding their sound" after going through a slew of blueprint rip offs from Biohazard on the first 7"  to Starkweather and Rorschach on the record in question for this entry.

Despite mentioning that I wouldn’t mention any of my own rips, I will break that rule to mention a band I was in but didn’t write much music for…Blind Authority! The opening riff copies the same few notes from Inspector Gadget so closely that we even had the song labelled as “Inspector G” before we had a name for it (evidenced by the BA last CTW fest at 2:37 where Alex forgets which song is next and you can hear me shouting at him “Inspector Gadget” to everyone on the side stage’s amazement). I know for a fact Scott didn’t actually rip this from the real theme tune, his brain just works so differently from anyone I’ve ever met when it comes to writing music that’s its just as expected that only he could cobble together an animatronic set of notes that simultaneously sound like IG and a blood-pumping hc opening mosh part.

 

 5. Jammer vs Griminal

Stepping outside of the hardcore and metal world for a second, this rip not only one of the baitest on this list but is the only rip to result in actual beef, blows and serious bars. I’m of course talking about “ItsAlotGate” and all the drama caused between NASTY crew and Slew Dem over the Griminal and Jammer songs of the same name.

To set the scene, its mid to late 00s and Griminal is coming up as one of the hottest younger MCs at the time with numerous Fuck Radio sets (some of his best material mind) and a 1Extra Westwood set to boast at such a young age for the NASTY crew apprentice. In 2008 the It's Not Just Barz tape drops and contains a song called “It’s A lot" that is SO catchy that the Jammer rehash will make you instantaneously splutter with laughter due to how brash the rip off actually is. Back to the story, fast forward a few months, Jammer releases a whole song and video of the same name with the hook surely leaving Jammer as the thieving c(g)riminal rather than the man, Grimson himself. To cut a long story short, after a slew of radio sets and the infamous Ghetto Mixtape release party - where fiery words were exchanged as to the origin of the phrase - the whole beef ended quite sadly with Tempz bottling Grim at Eskimo Dance (typical). Whether it was due to this or a rumoured cascading decent of mental health problems, Griminal never reached the heights he undoubtedly deserved and ceased producing any music whatsoever.

This was one of the more entertaining picks purely for the fact tat I got to revisit all the dusty grime forums where all this stuff played out albeit 3-4 years before my time. Courtesy to Marco Abbatiello for paying such close attention when all this was happening and recalling it to me in attentively fixating detail.   

 

Griminal setting the record straight. The best moment of this

video is the "do it again Grim, do it again!" just before

going back into the phrase this pick is all about.

4. Cro-Mags vs Iron Maiden, Suicidal Tendencies AND Faith No More

Oh man, this entry puts the juice into juicy with how much there is to write about regarding the three-in-one rip special done by the most legendary New York hardcore band of all time. Now before the elitists jump out of their crinkled cling-film wrapped skin yet again, I’m going to qualify this one by stating that there’s no real evidence to suggest two out of three of these rips were directly intentional and are just interesting to think about as to their uncanny similarity whilst the remaining rip is unquestionably a rip in every sense of the word.

 Unlike the other equally well-known contemporaries of the Cro-Mags (to be mentioned later in this list), these rips had the decency of being executed over three different songs, over three different albums rather than multiple lifts contained in only one song?!!? The first being the embarrassingly copy-catted riff in Crush the Demoniac, taken straight from Maiden’s classic, Aces High. What I really don’t get about this one is a.) why Paris or Harley would even need to rip off anything at this point in the band’s career considering how incredible their combined song writing ability was and b.) why they would choose to take from probably the biggest band ever to exist rather than something a little more obscure that you could at least get away with? It’s Iron Maiden for fuck’s sake.

 

Second for the Cro-magnons is a 90.00% similarity ratio with Suicidal Tendencies War Inside My Head and the ‘Mags song Show No Mercy. Now I’m pretty sure no actual ripping took place with these two kings of their respective coastlines and its more than likely that with the scramble for hardcore bands to take it to the next level by going more metal in the mid to late 80s, these bands simply happened to strum an identical placement of fifth, seventh and eighth frets. What is more interesting about these two songs is which one came first? Within the hardcore and metal world, dates on a record release are never good guides to go by as to when a song was written due to the fact some bands played live for years before being able to record or went through unrelenting turmoil that prevented material from being released. Age of Quarrel was released in ’86 and Join the Army in ’87 HOWEVER, check out this video of Suicidal playing WIMH as early as 1984 where the song is full formed and recorded as it would be three years later for Join The Army. There is one last trump card up Harley and the gang’s sleeve and that is the original 1982/83 Cro-Mags demos, which in their own right are amazing recordings, containing the BEST version of Don’t Tread On Me that was ever recorded. Unfortunately, Show No Mercy does not appear on these sessions but considering how close the sound is on these demos to what the Cro-Mags would become, I wouldn’t be surprised if that song either had been written or was in the process of being written when those demos were recorded.

The final stark comparison for the Cro-Mags is nothing but a bit of fun and was actually pointed out to be by Augie B. from Vortex (mentioned in the music video article I did a while ago). More of a blue print rip than an actual stolen set of notes, have a listen to the entirety of the Faith No More song Surprise! You’re Dead! You’ll be shocked to find that in FNM’s quest for an unpredictably brilliant sound often varying from song to song on the same album, they’ve basically written the template for what the entire of Alpha and Omega would sound like three years later. The riff at 0:37 is all the convincing you’ll need and I have a strange feeling Harley and JJ would have a hard time accepting that they for once weren’t innovators.

­3. A Chorus of Disapproval vs Death

This IS the most directly ripped riff of the whole list and only comes in at number three due to its notoriety (or lack thereof). I also didn’t think too many people reading this blog would be avid Chorus fans and neither do I think Chorus are massively influential or iconic as a band apart from just being a really really really GOOD metallic straight edge band.

The riff here is a real piss take to say the least and is found in the intro of the Chorus song, Full Circle Stop. What I later found out on my death metal binge that lasted for maybe the whole of 2015 is that the intro for FCS is hook, line and sinker Death’s Pull the Plug, played in a higher tuning through shitter, wannabe death metal amps and recorded via the standard hardcore production of the time (aka crap). I remember thinking when I first heard this Chorus song that the riff was insanely good and heavier than a lot of their other material. How was my super straight edge, metal oblivious brain supposed to work out it was STOLEN from the most famous death metal band of all time?

Jeff Banks, who wrote most of the music for Chorus, must have had at least some death metal leanings due to how noticeably metallic his playing style was in Visual Discrimination. Banks goes full throttle with his cherry-picked guitar sounds on The Italian 7” where it’s hard to ignore the amped up Metal Zone pedal drenched over all the guitars (to my knowledge, this type of tone was done by almost no one in the straight edge hardcore subgenre as early as 1992, see the song Seed of Pain which is where the current band of the same name got their rip fix from). The opening to Full Circle Stop is so abrupt in how it breaks into the actual Chorus song to then ensue, almost as if the band covered this riff so much in practice that it stuck around for good on the recording (I’m sure early era death metal was the exact opposite to what most West Coast hardcore kids were listening to during Chorus’ reign of terror).

2. One Life Crew vs Exodus

This isn’t the first time Blaze from OLC has been put under the spotlight for this misappropriation of another’s property and was mentioned on the Riff Cycle blogspot – a blog I’d encourage everyone to read (particularly Clevo hardcore fanatics) despite its criminally short output.

OLC on their own are a hilariously good band and I have no qualms saying that Crime Ridden Society is one of the best hardcore albums ever put to tape and would even go as far to say it wouldn’t be nearly as good without the sketchy self-contradicting lyrics. Guitarist, Blaze really had the right idea with his riff writing, managing to perfectly concoct a steroid jab of half-step-down metal riffs with the already metallic Judge sound to take the two fatties from Confront to the next level. If anything, OLC took a pretty mediocre riff from a band passed their sell-by date and rejuvenate it into one of the most recognisable intros ever written (I can't even link this since its been removed from youtube for what's probably the last time). In the words of Mean Steve, pretty good for a bunch of “half Turkish Jews!” I actually remember Steve uploading some side-splitting YouTube vlogs of him going full on right-wing dad about everything from buying New Balances because they supported Trump to shouting at Obama supporters across the road from some petrol station (if anyone can find these videos please let me know as I’ve tried all attempts to relocate them on YT to no avail).

It’s safe to say Exodus are perhaps one of the most influential non-hardcore bands on the hardcore genre; a claim that’ll be solidified with my number one pick. I’ll also second that statement by stating that the band to most successfully rip of Exodus have in turn been one of the greatest influences on the rest of hardcore too, so if there’s one thing to learn from this…EXODUS ATTACKS.

 

1. Agnostic Front vs Exodus AND Megadeth

I haven’t tried to be too “top 10” oriented with this list but there always has to be a number 1 and this is it. Taking the top spot with an absolutely hilarious double whammy of xerox-copied lyric and guitar tab sheets are the boys in Aggy Front. I’ll just say before I get into this, Cause for Alarm is by far my favourite Agnostic Front release *insert sounds of NYHC purists hammering on Iphone keyboard* for multiple reasons but having the shaven-headed panache to boldly rip off not one but TWO of the most classic thrash bands ever in the first 31 seconds is an astounding feat. I’m of course talking about the opening riff to The Eliminator being an intensely similar rehash of A Lesson In Violence by the mighty Exodus and the opening lyric being a 90.7% copy of Killing is my Business and Businessis GOOD by Megadeth. Slam DUNK.

What I love about this pick is how such minimal effort went into making the riff and lyric sound remotely different from the original sources despite this record only coming out a mere two years after Exodus and Megadeth’s debut records. and I can’t help but think AF - in their quest to become METAL – either didn’t give a fuck what the mighty thrashing mad legends would think or thought the majority of metal-oblivious hardcore kids simply wouldn’t notice. What’s probably more likely is that since Pete Steel wrote almost all of this record, he slipped this in hoping (or knowing) no one in AF paid enough attention to any metal to question his craftmanship and he would come out of it the heroic songwriter saving AF from certain doom. Every time I hear the Eliminator my mind plays out an odd dramatization of Vinnie Stigma just saying to Steele “Right Pete, I just want us to sound like all this new-fangled metal stuff the kids like now but without all the gay-ass hair and leather” and Steele basically coming back with a thrash “best of” collection of ripped riffs that would become Cause For Alarm.

I’d encourage any thrash enthusiasts to listen to the album in its entirety not just for how much it RIPS (see what I did there) but you’re bound to spot some more than convincing homages to your favourite thrashers dotted around this NYHC classic.

 

The main men themselves, Vinnie and Pete.

And so, the most recent post draws to a close. This is one of those articles that I’d genuinely like to function as an open response game where everyone shares interesting rips they’ve collated over the years (by everyone, I mean the small in number but diehard readers of this blog). Anyway, don’t take these picks too seriously and please do share your own, I’ll be buffering your recommendations faster than you can say I CAN’T BELIEVE IT’S NOT RIPPED.

 

 

  

 

Brown Inbound #4: Yoonsang Doo [ABUSE OF POWER, FAZE, SOCIETY ABUSE] 

Damn, this completely debunks my closing thoughts to the tough guy article that I was going to be posting less frequently. All I can say to the teeny tiny amount of readers who noticed this total contradiction, is that I haven't just been sitting bone idle in the time between now and the Rucktion piece! Trust me, I have this series reasonably planned out in advance and there should be plenty of 'brown' content to be shared when the time is right.

This is the first interview with one of my own contemporaries and will be a refreshing bathe for younger readers who have either seen Yoon's bands play in the UK or for older heads who crave the retro fix of hardcore that the above mentioned acts have reinvigorated. For me, this is an opportunity to interview one of the first people I befriended from the USA (originally acquainted via the violent arena of OG band shirt trading groups on Facebook that are now much better regulated to my knowledge) who not only survived two insane weeks touring up the East Coast with a bunch of of abominable Brits abroad but actually remained as close as an overseas friend can be in the years following. All of this without even having to mention Abuse of Power - the band Yoon is best known to have drummed for - being one of the most influential hardcore bands of the last five years, mastering probably one of the trickiest styles to get right. Lets get into it.

Hi Yoon, thanks for agreeing to do this interview with me.

 

Of course Ben. It’s my pleasure to do so.

 

I'm gonna start with some quick questions about yourself starting with your family background, could you give us a quick history?

 

I am 100% Korean, at least to my knowledge. Who knows what a DNA test would tell me. I was born in Gunsan, South Korea and migrated to the U.S in 1999. My immediate family consists of my parents (still together) and my older sister and I. My extended family is much larger since my grandparents on my mothers side had like… 10 kids or so?

 

Did your parents listen to a lot of music growing up at home? What did they listen to and how much of an impact had this had on your development? Any particular records you still stick on from time to time?

 

Yoon reminded me just how important this band were
for our generation accessing heavy music and revisiting
Linkin Park's early output, I couldn't fault it one bit.

Not really no. My parents were both musically inclined since my mother is a very talented pianist who taught music back in Korea and my dad knows how to play guitar, but they weren’t really too into listening to music at home as far as I can tell. If anything they really just listened to non-secular gospel music. I can safely say that the only influence either of them have had on me was my love for classical music from my mother.

 

Were they into alternative or punk music at all?

 

Never, they actually hated it and anytime I would turn it on.

 

What was your perception of punk/hardcore if you had any as a child or adolescent before you fell into the subculture? Did you see it a certain way that clashed with your identity/place in your community before you came to know more about it?

 

If I can remember correctly, my first perception of punk and hardcore would be from the Tony Hawk soundtracks. I had no idea what punk or hardcore was but I’d listen to the songs while playing the games and think “wow, this music is really fucking cool”. I definitely had a weird feeling that I was ‘different’ from my peers because I was into heavier music, since Linkin Park was my first CD I’ve ever gotten at the age of 6 and it was way different from the other pop/rap songs that were mainstream at the time. My peers would call me “the kid who listened to screamo”.

 

What are your biggest musical, aesthetic and cultural influences in your approach to the art you have produced?

 

In short, I guess the encapsulation of the 90’s and early 00’s would be the biggest influences into a lot of the aesthetics, culture, or art that I’ve produced. With that as the foundation, I also am influenced a lot by my peers. I feel like I have the most talented group of people I’m honored to call my friends.

 

What was your first and/or most memorable experience of racism, if any?

 

The first was being called the classic ‘Jackie Chan’ as a child. None are actually memorable as they all sort of blend together. I suppose the most memorable is when someone just was super relentless on trying to tell me that my uncle was Jackie Chan or Bruce Lee or whichever Asian person they wanna relate me with.

This response reminded me of Jackie Chan's own admission of how Westerners identified him,

albeit hilarious as is always with anything Chan related.

 

How did you eventually find out about punk and hardcore and what was the process that eventually got you going to shows and playing in bands?

I've lost count of the amount of times this game has been
referenced as a direct access point for discovering hardcore.
My other band, Stages In Faith often is described as
 "something you'd hear on the soundtrack".

I was 14 or 15 in January of 2010, and my best friend at the time had a car. We were both in a pop punk band at the time and started to try to be more involved in our local scene. There was a local band that I wanted to see and they happened to play one of the best shows to happen in Jacksonville, FL at the time. It was a fest with Kids Like Us, Down To Nothing, Trapped Under Ice, Naysayer, Forfeit, Cruel Hand, and a few others. Ironically enough, I missed the one band I actually went there to see and my friend had to leave briefly to settle things with an ex girlfriend or whatever but I decided to stay. I was a small young kid watching people beat the shit out of each other and go crazy and it was nothing like I’ve ever seen before. The only band name I remembered after that night was Cruel Hand so I naturally went on their MySpace and found many other bands through their top friends list. Naturally Have Heart was one of my favorite bands in the beginning and so watching their last show video and the bands that played that basically shaped my hardcore music taste.

 

I actually didn’t play in any hardcore bands until a few years into becoming a part of the hardcore scene. But the first core band I was ever in was Society Abuse that I started with Justin and Tyler.

 

Which types of people did you gravitate towards when you began going to shows? Did the social aspect of it affect how you experienced the scene?

 

I gravitated towards anyone who would give me the time of day. Hardcore is a very elitist scene, especially in Jax where a lot of the older crowd thought I was just a lame new kid and didn’t really give me the time of day or respect. Justin and Tyler were really the only people who initially did and I met my first group of friends in the scene through them. The social aspect definitely affected how I experienced it. When I was younger and back in those days, I just chalked up diet racism that I experienced such as names or whatever to just “oh they’re just messing with me but don’t mean it, its cool”. Weird sort of brainwashing I suppose.

 

I know from my own experience of US hardcore that ethnic diversity is a lot more present in the hardcore, punk and metal scenes than say, the UK. You yourself are a first-generation immigrant which sets you apart from many others. Do you feel there are any acute differences between yourself and US-born ethnic minorities? How has your own experience shaped your journey that may be different from others or did this contribute very little to the successes in your life?

 

Yes and no. I think it mostly depends if the US-born ethnic minorities parents were also raised in the US as well. A lot of the differences really depend on how you were raised, and since I was raised in a very traditional Korean household, it’s way different than someone who was raised in an American hybrid ethnic household if that makes any sense. It was honestly a big reason I really didn’t feel much connection to any of my hardcore ethnic peers. While they definitely experienced similar things to me, it just wasn’t the same. I think it contributed largely to any success I’ve had in my life. I was able to take the good parts of being raised in my Korean household (such as the emphasis on respecting other people) and mix it into the more American hardcore DIY ethos and create my own ideal moral code.

 

Society Abuse were probably the closest thing to what
Blind Authority sounded like around 2015/16 but with a
slightly punkier undertone. The lyrics to Rights Denied
linger in my head to this day:
"Are you gonna run or are you gonna FIGHT?"

I remember when I first met you was in 2015 when you were playing drums in Society Abuse. The guitar player of that band, Justin was from a Filipino background and went on to join you in Abuse of Power. I know from my own experience that there is a certain solidarity I would feel with other people from ethnic minorities even if they were not the same as my own. Was there this bond in SA/AoP and if so, did it work its way into your music, aesthetic and band values?

 

Absolutely. I met Justin when we were both in High School art class together and the reason why I was so interested in developing a friendship with him is because when I saw him in the halls, he was an Asian person who looked alternative. It’s a huge reason we became so close in my opinion. He’s been in almost every single band I’ve been in.

 

 Separate from music, you have an astute entrepreneurial mindset which I’ve garnered just from our interactions and conversations about music, art, business etc. Do you have any business advice that you have learned specifically from the hardcore scene or beyond? Can this advice be applied to hardcore and punk as well as everyday life tribulations? Do you think hardcore involves a commercial edge just as much as any other business setting?

 

It’s a weird and awkward conversation to have but hardcore does indeed have a commercial side to it. I think it just depends on how far you’re willing to really ride and stay on that train that separates it being okay from disgusting in my opinion. In a perfect world, we would all be able to get by doing the things we love, but you really do give up a lot just to be able to write and tour in a hardcore band. There are people who do it for the wrong reasons like popularity, or wanting to be the cool person wearing a tour laminate at every show, but there are also people who do it just because they feel the desire and need to do it because they love it. Going back, I think it’s important to support hardcore bands that you think are worth supporting because let’s face it, being compensated and able to live off of what you love doing the most is a good feeling. I like it, I’m sure you like it, and I can go as far as to say most everyone would like that. I just think it’s important to keep your expectations real and not get too greedy. As far as other advice, really just do it yourself. There’s a huge reason why that ethos is very important in hardcore.

 

For me, Abuse of Power specifically was really a band that grew completely in their own over time ending with one of the best hardcore LPs of the last ten years. You sort of opened the flood gates to a lot of bands that are reaping a lot of popularity now (One Step Closer, Wise etc) What do you think was the one sole factor that made AoP such a unique and pioneering band? Was it a question of pure musical study of hardcore traditions or was it letting your own personalities and ethos shine through?

 

What I'd argue is the "template" record for 
Abuse of Power's full-length LP. It's genuinely difficult
to pull off this style without the songs either being
flat out boring or leaning too harshly into the emotional
cringe factor. 

I’ll be honest- despite what anyone else might think about why we did the things we did as a band, Kaleb, Haylen, Lucky and I really started Abuse of Power because we liked the style of music we made (demo era) for a long time and we all just had great musical chemistry from playing in Pain Tolerance and Criminal Instinct together. We did what we did for ourselves, not to be like “oh let’s start a (name band) type of band.” Atlanta is known for starting trends and being ahead of the curve and I suppose it just happened to work that way with Abuse of Power as well in 2016. Look at Foundation and Criminal Instinct for example, nobody in hardcore was playing 90’s style when Foundation started and nobody was playing fast hardcore when Criminal Instinct came out, but once people started realizing, ‘wow this is awesome and a lot of people fuck with it’ all of the clones followed. My point being is, do it because you want to do it, not just because it’s the cool new thing to take advantage of.

 

Further on into AOP’s career, we just started to evolve as musicians and people in general and during the time we wrote our full length, it was just a product of our lives in that specific point of time. People can relate it to this or that and while we do take influence from many things, I can’t really think of anything it really sounds like.

 

 

Tell me about the sketchiest/wildest gig you've been to that comes to mind.

 

Either Merauder in a 100-cap room or Cro-Mags in a 150-cap room, both in Jacksonville FL. Lot of scary biker gang members at both shows. I was in a Cro-Mags pit and during ‘Malfunction’, I saw a gun fall out of one of them in the pit and I respectfully bowed out and stood on the side for the rest of the show.

 

Favourite bands with ethnic members and why are they important to you?

 

I’m going to keep this US exclusive since I feel like it’s pointless to say Bastard from Japan or something because the local color there isn’t white. I’d honestly say Turnstile is a really good example. Being a band with (almost) all original members still, they have a black bass player and an Asian drummer. I think it’s really cool how they create inclusivity in their crowds, and even their bands itself. There are many other bands with ethnic members but just being Asian makes me put Turnstile up there. I’ll throw Have Heart up there too. I always thought it was cool since I was a kid seeing Kei playing for them, especially since they were of my first favorite bands. I was fortunate enough to tour with Free/Have Heart get to know them as people and they’re definitely not just cool band guys - they are genuinely some of the coolest people I’ve met in hardcore.

 

And lastly, how have things changed for the ethnic involvement in punk and hardcore since you started going to gigs? Is there a noticeable difference, have things got better or worse? If you had a child growing into their teens now, would the scene as it is be a place you would want them to be? Could it be made safer? does it need to be?

 

Blind Authority discover fire in Richmond, VA. This
was taken on the Society Abuse 2015 East Coast Tour
by Augie Ruiz.

It’s definitely the most consciously safe place it’s ever been in my opinion. I wasn’t technically around before 2010 but I can only assume how bad it was considering the fact that even my early days it was very annoying for me to deal with racism. We can all do better and put more effort in though, while it’s at the best point it’s been, it’s nowhere near from perfect. It’s bittersweet that the recent BLM movements have opened a lot of people’s eyes into looking inside and trying to right their wrongs, but it’s very sickening that lives were taken away for people to realize it.

 

Do you have any ingenious plans in the works or will we blink and see that you’re either the president of the USA or living the rest of your life on a private island?

 

No real plans right now. I’m just trying to live my life the best I can to be as happy as I can be. I fucking hate politics and think the world would be better if everyone just had respect and concern for their fellow people but, I suppose the bare minimum is a hard pill for some to swallow.

 

Any last words or anything you want to air, please do!

 

Obviously, this interview was mainly focused on racism and my personal experiences from it, but for those who are reading, please try to look deeper into yourself and not just fixate on overcoming and defeating racism, but also misogyny as well. There’s been a lot of misconduct, especially from men to women and it’s saddening to see all of the trauma people have had to go through from lack of respect and selfishness.

 

Thanks for the interview Ben, peace and love to you and everyone reading. <3

 

 

 

Ruining holidays 101. BA and SA in 2015 [Augie Ruiz]