Brown Inbound Interview #1: Marco Abbatiello [PAYDAY and TS WARSPITE]
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| Credit: Dan Ronson |
Once the initial fist flying novelty of hardcore punk had worn off on my impressionable teenage mind, I started to seek out more niche bands, labels and movements within the subculture as every avid keeper of the faith always will. One common denominator persisted: the connection I would feel to a band if I knew ethnic membership took up any kind of presence in the line up. Don't get me wrong, it is not often I let trivial faculties - like the colour of a musician's skin - sway my preference on a group unless I really want to like them but since that scenario isn't all too often, I won't usually bang the drum of whatever band I'm toting based on such shallow criteria. However, if the music slaps, then it I'm not going to complain! My intention with this series is to not only to tell stories not yet voiced but also delve into how values learned around the dinner table can shape artistic journeys and churn out the offerings that we only see in their most pristine final packaging.
Waffle section, check. I've chosen to start off with an old friend in Marco Abbatiello, fellow band mate in Payday and appreciator of every shade of brown boy nuance. Marco was at the first hardcore show I ever attended and I remember thinking, "Wow, another Punjabi bro?!" Little did I know he was nothing of the sort and would have be hanged from a decrepit set of Neapolitan gallows for merely suggesting such blasphemy! Marco was also one of the first people from a slightly older generation to get me more involved in hardcore and has a lot of time for just about anyone who wants to talk risk levels of financial portfolios; which pomade gets the perfect moisture to glean ratio and why legendary punk band, X can be accompanied by metamorphic feline MC, Sneakbo on the same platter as part of a balanced audible diet. Lets get it.
Hi Marco, thanks for agreeing to do this interview with me.
Ramadan Mubarak ahk, my pleasure.
I'm going to start with some quick questions about yourself starting with your family background, could you give us a quick history?
Like with most great things gotta start and thank our great British forefathers for having the foresight to invade all our ancestors pathetic backwards nations and bring us all together on a wet mossy rock. Luckily we’ve traded in developed mastered customs and natural resources for more civilised ones like going bet Fred and Nisa. Also very nice of them to also give us the opportunity to run them for ourselves as well. My mother’s origins are all formalised by the British army - she is an islander with all those islands being part of the Golden Triangle. You picked that sugar cane and rice so better fight for it so her mother and father did that then had 5 kids. My father is, for better or for worse, a displaced Italian communist who fell in love with sports direct and the the free market when he was expelled from Italy on grounds of being too generous. His origins are all agricultural based so he’s always wanted to seize the means of production, must be something about Mike Ashley he sees.
Did your parents listen to a lot of music growing up at home? What did they listen to and how much of an impact did this have on your development? Any particular records you still stick on from time to time?
Yeah quite a bit tbf but it got pretty wass pretty quick - my mum was into Motown, disco, soul and 80’s RnB when she was younger. She was heavily involved in London motown fashion so it was mainly the records that went hand in hand with that. When I was young it was Aretha Franklin, Temptations etc which was cool - as her and I got older she started spending more time listening to stuff I think she thought she should listen to on account of her social circle changing. The more suburban it got the more Magic.fm it got - that’s the sad thing about supposedly realising your potential in social standing in the UK. The more you move physically away from where you are from, the more it takes its toll on your interests and who you are if you let it. My mums music tastes I think are the most subtle indicator of that. My dad always tried stay consistent in his values and understood how your interest in the arts goes hand in hand with maintaining that, so he was into protest music like Crass, Dead Kennedy’s, Patti Smith and still is. Saying that I think much like people who are older and have that standing, there is a limited understanding of how things change with technology and accessibility. That much is true with my generation let alone his. It means the filter for authenticity kinda fades and they all get into Slaves and Idles these days cause it’s so easy to find. That’s not a criticism at all, cause it’s just enthusiasm mixed with a lack of time but it’s good to be the one showing him stuff now. The main record that had a big impact on me from him was Patti Smith Horses - when he played me it at first, I kinda took the position it was privilege moaning and hated it but then I realised I was privilege so started moaning as well.
Were they into alternative or punk music at all?
Yeah as I mentioned, dad was big time. I think his understanding of it was a little skewed cause he was from a small village where counter culture didn’t really exist. He was very reliant on it finding its way to him somehow but I think the attitude was always there.
What was your perception of punk/hardcore before you fell into the subculture? Did you see it a certain way that would clash with your self/community identity before you came to know more about it?
It seemed on the surface very inconsistent with the minority counter culture movements of the time that I was exposed to living where I lived and having my family background. I was really into the aesthetics, attitude and delivery of early 00’s hip hop and garage, particularly stuff from the UK. The whole ethos that underpinned those scenes was refusing to be down trodden in-spite of social barriers and flashing against the odds success be it with social vibrancy or with wealth. Punk looked dirty and the opposite of the values of the stuff that I was into was about. It’s why I dismissed the stuff my dads played me at first as being unimportant and uninspiring - I didn’t see the protest cause I all I saw was complacency and moaning from privileged people rather than an alternative. Everything seemed lazy. It was only when I went to a hardcore show on accident with him in London that that all changed and I realised that social barriers and interactions that are not so obvious in mainstream pop culture were removed in hardcore. I started to draw the parallels with the music and subcultures I was in to and it started off my desire to be actively involved in something and do something the way I wanted to do it.
What are your biggest musical, aesthetic and cultural influences in your approach to the art you have produced?
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| Ruff Sqwad's 'Ruff Cuts'. |
It’s hard to narrow it down and pin it to one thing because obviously with self development that changes over time. One thing that’s remained consistent and stuck regardless of what I’m into is the grime collective Ruff Sqwad. The sound, the ethos, the organisation and the the energy that Ruff Sqwad created through their radio sets, beats, MC’s, live sets is unmatched on a personal level because it was not only the most relatable to me growing up but seemed the most authentic to themselves. Hearing Ruff Sqwad gives me confidence in my own ability and creative energy because they had confidence and pride in their own ability and their own emotions. The music is so emotionally intelligent and self aware. To me nothing sounds more like growing up in London than the instrumental Anna. It’s not perfect technically at all but it’s clever, raw, emotional and not overly considered about trying to sound like anything else but still is respectful to what came before it. Its much better than Crass and I think they as individuals are far less boring than Crass.
What was your first and/or most memorable experience of racism, if any?
Where I was from racism doesn’t take the form of crude slurs the way it does in other parts of the country. It’s more subtle and more institutionalised. I never heard the words used as slurs with vitriolic undertones Toward me until I left London or went to see Chelsea away lmao. But to be honest I don’t see that as the worst kind of racism, just stupid fear. Dividing communities and placing surface level reasons for your personal suffering so you can find a common cause as to why you are in the pits is just poor education, anger and an easy way for privileged people to create a racism binary. I’m not saying it’s not wrong, it is very wrong and the people who do bad things on those ideologies should be held accountable. But middle class people who say my brown friend says it’s ok we made this Tik Tok of him pretending to be Apu are the ones who think that’s the only way racism can exist. The most memorable and institutional form of racism I saw was when I worked in Harrods to be honest which ain’t a neo-nazi arse kicking story so sorry. I saw how they assigned different ethnicities to different departments based on what they wanted to sell and how and who they wanted to sell it to. And all these ethnic people lap it up - it’s horrible to see really. I think definitely in that luxury goods world racism is far more prominent and considered. I saw it from that moment onward as a much bigger issue than the Free Tommy skinheads in Lancashire for example and more of a matter that applied to the middle and upper classes of society because of the consideration and education they have that shape their beliefs. I am not taking accountability away from the dickheads who use slurs as I mentioned but I think racism needs to be viewed, especially by the generation before us, as existing in the circles we are told to aspire to be in. We shouldn’t pander to it and instead not turn our back on our own cultures and aspects that have shaped us.
How did you eventually find out about punk and hardcore and what was the process that eventually got you going to shows and playing in bands?
I kinda touched on it but my dad was in to the down and outs, which is kinda misc - I don’t really know how he got into them of every band he could have. Great band though. Either way he used to take me to the odd gig if I spent the weekend with him, not that I was about it, and Down and Outs were playing Ninjafest. This was back in 2007. That was the first time I saw what hardcore and punk was properly about and the bands I initially liked were Cold World, Billy Club Sandwich, Knuckledust and Stout. I think they probably had the most crossover appeal with the stuff I was into so made more sense for me. I am aware there are ethnic members in most of those bands but I think it’s more the overall attitude and presentation of those bands rather than the race that got me interested. I kinda left it for a while cause I started to get into drugs and drinking after that cause of my school friends but I then met Charlie from now Chubby and the Gang fame. I knew his sister for time, so after I asked her about his hardcore vibe and he showed me the ropes about straight edge and hardcore properly after I spoke to him about the show I went to. I owe a lot to him, he’s one of the realest people I’ve had the pleasure of meeting and calling a friend. Back then and now.
Which people did you gravitate towards when you began going to shows? Did the social aspect of it affect how you experienced the scene? The people you were surrounded by?
Like with anyone, you find comfort in familiarity so everyone I started hanging out with at shows had similar backgrounds to myself - I think this was due to knowing Charlie and me and him having similar upbringings. I don’t mean this from a racial perspective, if you know Charlie you know it can’t be, but rather from an experience of growing up in London and being kinda weird with the emergence of the internet perspective. The internet opened up so much in terms of exposure it was hard to know where to start so you kinda just got into everything but still had the hangover of the person you had developed into before it blew up. It’s hard to explain but I hope you know what I mean. Basically race or similarities with that aspect of our upbringing were not the reason I gravitated toward the circle I did consciously. We all were kids of first generation immigrants so there may some truth that race in a way plays a part and similar customs but it was more social and socioeconomic.
When you first started going to gigs were there any bands with ethnic members or other people at shows that made you feel more comfortable in their presence or did you not really think about it?
As I mentioned, ethnicity definitely played a part but to use a parallel, there were a lot of BAME people at my first job that made my fucking stomach turn so it weren’t solely that. I remember Abolition and No Direction as being two bands with members who had similar backgrounds to myself that stood out. That’s obviously more to do with the stuff I mentioned about being similar ages and being from similar social backgrounds. I definitely felt a lot more comfortable with those people being there - if it was just southern rise or the St Albans lot for example then I don’t think I would’ve stuck about. No offence to either group but I think London Straight Edge was the most relatable personally.
You ran into some controversy with certain lyrics in the bad you sing for, Payday. Could you give me a brief overview of what went down and how your conduct was received by the concerned parties?
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| Myself and Marco in Payday. |
Tell me about the sketchiest/wildest gig you've been to that comes to mind.
I was at Sound and Fury when that motorbike came into the pit during backtrack and that was pretty mad. It kind of descended into a borderline riot as police came and started to using batons which was quite funny because I thought American police loved using guns. The fall out of that meant that the fest was taken to some persons house in the middle of Los Angeles which to me seemed like the stupidest need for vindication I’d ever heard of. Turns out it was and the guys house was ruined.
Favourite bands with ethnic members?
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| New York's Antidote. Credit: Randall S. Underwood |
Present - Lawful Killing, I don’t need to tell you but every time I think of Lawful Killing I think of that meme of that kid in the classroom who's head is almost bursting - the kid in this case being trust fund punks trying not to like it because it’s not DIY space approved.
And lastly, how have things changed for ethnic involvement in punk and hardcore since you started going to gigs? Is there a noticeable difference, have things got better or worse? If you had a child growing into their teens now, would the scene as it is be a place you would want them to be? Could it be made safer? does it need to be?
Parallels exist but it’s different only in the sense that appropriation is far more rife than it was when I first went shows and this is across the board. I think the cerebral London punks and the hardcore kids of outbreak see themselves as worlds apart, I guess they would, but they’re just as bad as each other for this. The popularity of NYHC, Kickback and Rucktion on one end and early Cali and Japanese punk on the other is probably the reason for that - I have no issues with how people wanna dress and act but it just looks like dress up to me with almost zero understanding of the connotations of their uniforms rather than reforming it into something interesting or new. Everyone takes themselves dressing up as Hoya very seriously for example and I don’t see much originality or personality. You can’t buy an interesting upbringing I guess and it shows. It’s too hard work to create something new given that everything is on your fingertips now. That’s not in a jaded way either because there’s a lot I’m seeing that I like. Culture is kinda being sapped from hardcore because everyone seems too concerned with getting the cool thing that preceded them right as supposed to writing their own futures. The emergence of the internet is likely the reason for this. I am however really excited for the emergence of lawful killing, mastermind, Flaccid and the Fuzzbrain London scene that you are so actively involved in. It’s the most exciting thing I’ve seen since I’ve been involved in hardcore because I see it as limitless with where it can go and how it can shape London hardcore after London straight edge. It has the same sincereness and idiosyncrasies of that scene but is broader with exposure and reference points. The Fuzzbrain compilation is proof of that.
Any last words or anything you want to air, please do!
I’ve seen no 5G propaganda on the TL so keep it that way, I pray for Anthony Scarletts well-being in this testing time and keep Fuzzbrain music notifications on Instagram. Lawful Killing need your salahs so send em their way.
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